Friday, August 23, 2013

Friday, A-Day

Some of you have not complete the first blog assignment!

Do a little research. Document it informally. Report it as a comment on the blog. Someone volunteers to go first. Then, the next post should provide a clear and MEANINGFUL transition that connects his post to the previous one. Say, for instance, that Dara starts with. "According to William Benson in 'A Poet's Life,' John Donne was born to Catholic parents in 1572." Then Morgan follows with, "Although Dara reports that Donne was born Catholic, according to 'The Life of Donne' in The Literary Journals of the Seventeenth Century by James Jones, he later renounced his faith." Due Tuesday.


Connections to investigate

Henry VIII to Elizabeth
Catholic/Protestant tensions
relations of Donne with Thomas More (who was Thomas More?)
relations of Donne with Anne Moore (who was Anne Moore?)
relations of Donne with Ben Jonson (?)
contempory critical responses to his poetry
family life

40 comments:

Patrick Williams said...

According to the Encyclopedia Britannica, Donne was secretary to Sir Thomas Egerton, and fell in love with Egerton's niece, Anne Moore. In order to avoid confronting her father about the matter, Donne married Anne secretly, and Sir George Moore, Anne's father, had Donne thrown in jail as a result, and he was dismissed from his post as well. Sir George also denied Donne Anne's dowry, the money and goods that a woman brings to her husband in a marriage. Donne's marriage to Anne Moore ruined his hopes of a career in public service, which changed his life forever.

Patrick Williams said...

My source: http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/169175/John-Donne

Anonymous said...

As Patrick stated in his final sentence that "Donne's marriage to Anne More ruined his hopes of a career in public service, which changed his life forever", I would follow up stating that though it had an impact on Donne's life it may have not been for the worst. After marrying his wife in 1601 and spending time in prison it was not until 1609 that John Donne received his wife's dowry from his father in law. In 1615 King James announced that Donne would enter back into the ministry, later to be appointed a Royal Chaplain, and from there in 1616 he was appointed Reader in Divinity at Lincoln's Inn.
Because of Donne's style in poetry of uses of extended metaphors, religious topics and deep symbolism through his works he was soon established as "one of the greatest preachers of the era." As Donne's life seemed to be finally turning around, Donne's former wife, Anne, died from labor at age 32.
Though a terrible tragic, Donne created his work titled "Since she whom I lov'd hath paid her last debt", still continuing to write his poetry.

My source: http://www.luminarium.org/sevenlit/donne/donnebio.htm

Leo said...

John Donne was a men of passion, as Meagan said he was devastated by the death of his wife. Although he was probably going through the hardest time of his life, yet his poems were still very passionate. He did not dwell in the devastation of the death of the loved ones. Through one of his sonnets he wrote we can see that his ardor for his wife Anne is changed to ardor for God.
"Yet dearely I love you, and would be lov’d faine’
But am betroth’d unto your enemie,
Divorce mee, ‘untie, or break that knot againe,
Take mee to you, imprison mee, for I
Except you entrall mee, never shall be free,
Nor ever chast, except you ravish mee."
My sources: http://vivenda.hubpages.com/hub/John-Donne---man-of-passion

Mr. Koon said...

This strand has started off well. Thanks! Keep looking into new corners and keep making those great connective transitions.

Unknown said...

Just as Leo stated, Donne's poems were, indeed, very passionate. This is why they were highly prized among his small circle of readers during his time and still continues to be admired today. A. J. Smith, from the University of Southampton, claims that "Donne characterizes our natural life in the world as a condition of flux and momentariness." This can be seen in "Woman's Constancy":

"Now thou hast loved me one whole day,

Tomorrow when thou leav'st, what wilt thou say?

...................................

Vain lunatic, against these 'scapes I could

Dispute, and conquer, if I would,

Which I abstain to do,

For by tomorrow, I may think so too."

http://www.poetryfoundation.org/bio/john-donne

Quay Good said...

As Sydnee stated Donne characterizes our natural life in the world as a condition of flux and momentariness. However he also presents a very passionate view on things such as love. University of Southampton expresses that "Donne's love poetry expresses a variety of amorous experiences that are often startlingly unlike each other, or even contradictory in their implications" this can be seen in "The Anniversary"

Unknown said...

Quay mentions the "variety" and "startlingly unlike" nature of Donne's poems. Dr. David Naugle presents that Donne did not want to just represent the theme of love in his poems, but rather exemplify them as an idea interlaced within a story to show his ideology he had of love. This is represented well in his peom, "The Indifferent", where he shows his philosophy on love in the midst of a love-stricken narrator.

THE INDIFFERENT.
by John Donne


I CAN love both fair and brown ;
Her whom abundance melts, and her whom want betrays ;
Her who loves loneness best, and her who masks and plays ;
Her whom the country form'd, and whom the town ;
Her who believes, and her who tries ;
Her who still weeps with spongy eyes,
And her who is dry cork, and never cries.
I can love her, and her, and you, and you ;
I can love any, so she be not true.
Will no other vice content you ?
Will it not serve your turn to do as did your mothers ?
Or have you all old vices spent, and now would find out others ?
Or doth a fear that men are true torment you ?
O we are not, be not you so ;
Let me—and do you—twenty know ;
Rob me, but bind me not, and let me go.
Must I, who came to travel thorough you,
Grow your fix'd subject, because you are true ?

Venus heard me sigh this song ;
And by love's sweetest part, variety, she swore,
She heard not this till now ; and that it should be so no more.
She went, examined, and return'd ere long,
And said, "Alas ! some two or three
Poor heretics in love there be,
Which think to stablish dangerous constancy.
But I have told them, 'Since you will be true,
You shall be true to them who're false to you.' "

Dr. David Naugle's essay(Naugle only mentioned the name and analyzed the poem in his essay.): http://www3.dbu.edu/naugle/pdf/donne_philosophy_love.pdf

Poem found: http://www.luminarium.org/sevenlit/donne/indifferent.htm

Unknown said...

As Preston stated, The poem "The Indifferent" may be a poem entitled to a theme of love, but Donne could have tried to interpret the meaning differently other than love. According to Katherine de Vere a college journalist, "This Love Poem is a Simple Comical and Cynical, Ironic Piece Not Requiring Explication" because of his very descriptive perspectives of love and descriptions of sex. This showing that Donne had the ability to appeal to readers with established topics but could have more deeper meanings or intentions with his words.

Unknown said...

Justin mentioned Donne's ability to relate to the reader and this can stem from his metaphysical style during a religiously oppressive time. His ideals of love and unity of mankind as a whole, which transcends any sect of the church, appealed to a much wider group of people. Not restricting his writing allowed for his work to be read and appreciated by much more people outside the oppressive church.

Unknown said...

Jeb is correct in that whatever he wrote anyone outside of a religious standpoint could appreciate his work. He had many different writings from poems, devotions,and to meditations. But he was also a preacher, and wrote 160 sermons. They were filled with great descriptions of bible passages, themes of love, and also resurrection. Twenty three of them are named "Devotions upon Emergent Occasions"(1624) which is meditations, and prayers written during the time of his sickness.

Unknown said...

source: www.online-liturature.com/donne/

Kelcey Howley said...

Becca Daniel refers to Donne's "Devotions Upon Emergent occasions"(1624), which includes prayers and meditations about health, sickness, and pain in general. Donne wrote these pieces while he had an illness that almost took his life. Upon returning to health, Donne developed a preoccupation with death. In Donne's final sermon, "Deaths Duell"(1632), he concludes that one overcomes death through Christ's resurrection.

Source: www.poetryfoundation.org/bio/John-Donne

Unknown said...

As Kelcey mentions above, John Donne was very interested in death, and some of the poems he wrote had the significant theme of death. He believed death was a transitioning stage, a "sleep" that took place in order to reach Heaven. In one of his Holy Sonnets, "Death Be Not Proud", he basically states that death is not all-powerful, and it's not an end to life.
"Death be not proud, though some have called thee
Mighty and dreadful, form thou art not so"
According to Antonio Oliver's page of the views of death in Donne's poetry, his wife's death seemed to be the inspiration for his "obsession" with his "death-themed" poetry, as seen in his Holy Sonnet XVII.

Unknown said...

http://www.luminarium.org/sevenlit/oliver.htm

Victoria Burdette said...

The death of Donne's wife was devastating but also a turning point in his life and writing. Natalie discussed Anne's death as the probable inspiration for his "death-themed" poetry. Donne's writing not only turned more toward death during this period in his life, but also away from the theme of love. Donne also overcame the death of his wife by further pursuing a career in ministry and became a chaplain in Germany. This journey allowed him to move away from his sadness and toward a religious career. He expressed this in the "Hymn to Christ at the Author's Last Going to Germany."

And all whom I love there, and who loved me ;
When I have put our seas 'twixt them and me,
Put thou Thy seas betwixt my sins and Thee

http://www.luminarium.org/sevenlit/donne/donnebio.htm

Unknown said...

Donne had become more religious in his poetry, as Victoria had stated, and displayed his great knowledge of the Roman Catholic system through these poems. However, nearing 1621, he became more focused on death in his writings as he too started to decay. This can be seen in his "private prayers" called 'Devotions Upon Emergent Occasions' in which Devotion 17 was a part of. He also records his disease's progress in this, and the spiritual implications that it had and often compared it to sin, metaphorizing sin as sickness.

Sources:
http://litmed.med.nyu.edu/Annotation?action=view&annid=1128
http://www.poets.org/poet.php/prmPID/243

Unknown said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Unknown said...


As Victoria states that Donne pursed a religious ministry, but going back before "Hymn to Christ at the Authors Last Going to Germany" one of Donne's works include Psuedo-Martyr earning him respect from king James I because it stated that Catholics could pledge allegiance to the king without renouncing their faith. This is when Donne gained a passion and love for wring about God in his poetry saying, "God is love" also focusing on a page from Solomon.
For example, his "Holy Sonnets"
Batter my heart, three-person'd God; for you
As yet but knock, breathe, shine, and seek to mend;
That I may rise, and stand, o'erthrow me, and bend
Your force to break, blow, burn, and make me new …
Take me to you, imprison me, for I
Except you enthrall me, never shall be free,
Nor ever chaste, except you ravish me.

Donne was encouraged by his friends to become a priest in the Church of England, repeatedly refusing the offer until king James I said that he would not be offered employment elsewhere but the church, he excepted and received a doctorate of divinity from Cambridge becoming a parish in 1616.







Unknown said...

My source:
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ch/131christians/poets/donne.html

Unknown said...


As Eve-Liina mentions above on the newer and yet more sensible ways of Donne's writing, it is very interesting that he had now placed his current state of mind, based on his disease ridden mind (and body more literally), and his spirituality on display, especially in Devotion 17. Patrick J. Creevy, an English professor, writes in the 'Victorians Institute Journal' that Donne wrote in "Meditations", Donne claims that disease takes not only toll on his own sense of reality, but yet his unrelatedness towards a separation from such more large and powerful spiritual connections, which identifiable by assuming he's referring towards his faith, and now what it's value is to him.



Sources:
http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/41178465?uid=3739896&uid=2&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21102585885107

Unknown said...

As Jesse mentioned, Donne wrote a type of poetry known as "Meditations". Not did these possess a serious tone, some were quite personal. Whether he was delving into the ethical and moral complexities of the current time period, or reflecting on man's religious relationship with God, Donne embraced topics that may not have usually been focused on. It was these types of meditations that drew criticism. One of the more famous criticisms comes from T.S. Eliot, where he claims that he finds the way Donne's images are "yoked together" impressive. His criticism played a part in naming Donne a great poet.

source:
http://www.stjohns-chs.org/english/Seventeenth/donmed.html

Unknown said...

As Kendall mentioned, Donne is known for his themes that are focused on God and religion,and women. However, Donne also ranged over many subjects including sarcasm and the sincere, the religiously wise and wittily bright and paganism and Christian religion. Donne is known for his devotions and meditations dealing with God, but also ranged over number of topics.

source:
http://www.notablebiographies.com/De-Du/Donne-John.html

Unknown said...

Drawing of what Hunter mentioned, he was not only known for his writing subjects but also influential in founding metaphysical poetry which startles the reader and coaxes them with new ideas or philosiphies. George Herbert and Andrew Marvell are othermetaphysical poets.

Source- poets.org

Daniel Craig said...

Relating to what Gabe said, Donne was often referred to as the "Central figure" of metaphysical poetry. In each of Donne's poems there are samples of passionate feeling and/or paradoxical concentration, two key components of metaphysical poetry. Donne also keeps his readers on one central idea or argument the entire poem.

Alexis Lynna' said...

In contribution to what Daniel Craig said Donnr keeps his readers on one central idea or argument throughout the entire poems. Mostly being about his fear of his inevitable death. This is shown in his private prayers (devotions upon emergent occasions) which he wrote during an severe illness. Donne later became best known for his lively and compelling style.

http://www.poets.org/poet.php/prmPID/243

Unknown said...

Like Alexis said, Donne focused on death, a subject which also centered around his religious beliefs, something he could be considered an authoritative figure in, as he held an important title in his church.

" By this time Donne himself had come to believe he had a religious vocation, and he finally agreed to take holy orders. He was ordained deacon and priest on Jan. 23, 1615, and preferment soon followed. He was made a royal chaplain and received, at the king’s command, the degree of doctor of divinity from Cambridge."

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/169175/John-Donne

SDB said...

To continue on Katie's note about the church, Donne also wrote a great deal about the church. He had extensive knowledge on the relationship between church and state, a topic hotly debated to this very day. His most prominent work on the matter was "Pseudo-Martyr", possibly one of the most influential works of his life as it earned Donne a position as a clergyman in the Church of England.

http://www.poets.org/poet.php/prmPID/243

Unknown said...

Expanding on SBD's mention of Donne's work, "Pseudo-Martyr", the prose was written to address the relationship between church and state spanning from the early church all the way to 1600. Donne intentionally made connections between issues of the early church and the modern church to convey that English Roman Catholics could remain loyal to Rome for spiritual reasons but still give political loyalty to Britain and avoid confliction between the two. It was his intention to prove that the division of loyalties between the two superior authorities was still acceptable.

http://www.mqup.ca/pseudo-martyr-products-9780773509948.php

Maddie B said...

As Will previously stated that John Donne predominantly wrote about the church and religion in his devotions and meditations, however Donne also wrote a decent amount about women and the relationship he had with them. As in the "Woman's Constancy" Donne talks about a relationship he had, or a man had, with a women. Even though Donne wrote a great deal about the church he also managed to write about romantic aspects of life.

http://www.luminarium.org/sevenlit/donne/constancy.php

Unknown said...

As Maddie said previously John Donne did manage to write about romantic aspects of life some of them are the most deeply felt poems of romance such as "The Rising Sun". In "The Rising Sun" Donne is laying in the bed with his lover and the sun comes up and he sees the sun as a negative because love has no time or season. So he tells the sun to go bother someone else and he wonders why the sun thinks it's rays are so strong. Donne says he can just avoid them by closing his eyes but he does not want to lose sight of his beloved. This poem just further shows that he has a romantic side.


http://www.luminarium.org/sevenlit/donne/sunrising.htm
http://www.poetryfoundation.org/learning/guide/177309

SR said...

As Jawaun has previously stated, "The Sun Rising" largely focuses on the romantic side of him. This poem was actually dedicated to his relationship with Anne More, describing his disdain for the sun's intrusion, yet eventually coming to admire the rays for it's ability to warm them and keep them together. He does this by comparing their relationship to the earth. The sun is meant to warm the earth, developing their own peaceful getaway. He ends the poem saying that he does not know if the sun revolves around them or otherwise, but his most certainly revolves around hers.
Source: http://www.poetryfoundation.org/learning/guide/177309

jdh said...

As SR described Donne and his overwhelming love for his wife, he also had another love; the deep love for God. When Anne died he wrote now that his wife is gone why look for another wife. He will now give God his complete devotion. He hopes Anne is not jealous of his love for heavenly things.
Source: http://www.luminarium.org/sevenlit/donne/holysonnet17.htm

SamHuffman said...

As SR and JDH were just saying, yes he did lose his wife and he loved both her, and God but according to a lot of his poems he shows that he also loves mankind. Many of his poems depict a very loving attitude towards all of man kind. Source: http://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/77318.John_Donne

Unknown said...

As Sam was saying, he wrote a lot about his feelings towards mankind. In his poem "No Man Is An Island," he basically describes that all of mankind made together is a continent, and not an island. John Donne always felt that everyone was equal, and that everyone had the same purpose for living. He never saw anyone as an outsider(island), he always saw people as one part of a very large community(continent).

http://www.poemhunter.com/poem/no-man-is-an-island/

Rebecca Simpson said...

As Loftin was saying, Donne did see mankind as being equal or part of a whole, as is shown in his poem "Meditation 17;"
". The church is Catholic, universal, so are all her actions; all that she does belongs to all. When she baptizes a child, that action concerns me; for that child is thereby connected to that body which is my head too, and ingrafted into that body whereof I am a member."
Donne is saying that everyone becomes part of Christ and the Catholic Church, and that after becoming part of the church they become equals. However many people felt differently during this time. The Catholic faith wanted to preserve their religion by using practices that had been around for hundreds of years. Martin Luther, and his followers, wanted a religion made for the common people, and created a religion called "Protestant;" a faith based on Catholicism with more contemporary practices. Many tensions arose between the two religions following the creation of the Protestant Church.

Rebecca Simpson said...

My source: http://www.noblesandcourtiers.org/religion-elizabethan-england.htm

Unknown said...

Following up on what Rebecca mentioned, Donne did in fact believe that all people were equal under God. He used religion to influence both his lifestyle and beliefs. Though he didn't consider himself to be Catholic nor Protestant, he dedicated himself to seeking the truth. "Donne's youthful response to these calamities was to reject his Catholicism. But neither did he accept the Protestantism of his family's persecutors. Instead, he walked the line between cynical rebellion and honest truthseeker, listing the pitfalls of various denominations and sects in his first book of poetry, Satires."

Source:http://www.christianitytoday.com/ch/131christians/poets/donne.html

Unknown said...

Abigail mentions how John Donne was neither a Catholic nor Protestant. Yet despite this, Donne was a very religious and spiritual man, as evidenced by works such as his Holy Sonnets. He frequently addressed the idea of "true religion" in his poetry. Despite not belonging to any denomination, Donne was at one point a cleric in the Church of England.

HOLY SONNETS.

IV.

O, my black soul, now thou art summoned
By sickness, Death's herald and champion ;
Thou'rt like a pilgrim, which abroad hath done
Treason, and durst not turn to whence he's fled ;
Or like a thief, which till death's doom be read,
Wisheth himself deliver'd from prison,
But damn'd and haled to execution,
Wisheth that still he might be imprisoned.
Yet grace, if thou repent, thou canst not lack ;
But who shall give thee that grace to begin ?
O, make thyself with holy mourning black,
And red with blushing, as thou art with sin ;
Or wash thee in Christ's blood, which hath this might,
That being red, it dyes red souls to white.


Source:
Donne, John. Poems of John Donne. vol I.
E. K. Chambers, ed.
London: Lawrence & Bullen, 1896. 158-159.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Donne
www.luminarium.org/sevenlit/donne/sonnet4.php

Unknown said...

As Dale stated above John Donne established many of his poetic works around religion. Yet throughout my research I unveiled that other subjects were covered in his poetry. According to the Encyclopedia Britannica, Donne also completed works on the topic of love. This is proven through his poem Woman's Constancy.

Now thou has loved me one whole day,
Tomorrow when you leav’st, what wilt thou say?
Wilt thou then antedate some new-made vow?
Or say that now
We are not just those persons which we were?
Or, that oaths made in reverential fear
Of Love, and his wrath, any may forswear?
Or, as true deaths true marriages untie,
So lovers’ contracts, images of those,
Bind but till sleep, death’s image, them unloose?
Or, your own end to justify,
For having purposed change and falsehood, you
Can have no way but falsehood to be true?
Vain lunatic, against these ‘scapes I could
Dispute and conquer, if I would,
Which I abstain to do,
For by tomorrow, I may think so too.

http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poem/180618
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/169175/John-Donne